Interesting thoughts.<br><br>
Posted by nathan on 03/07 at 09:03 PM
The Rapture
There are many things about eschatology I do not understand. One thing I have come to firmly believe is that I will not accept a view of eschatology that has sacrifices legitimately re-instituted, as I’ve mentioned in a previous post. Aside from that, however, there are many things that are still not settled for me.One thing that was pointed out to me the other day was the description of “the rapture” in Matthew 24, and how what is described in verses 36-34 is actually quite different from what many people interpret it as. Let’s look at it:
Matt. 24:36 But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son,* but the Father only. 37 As were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. 42 Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. 43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect. (ESV)
This passage has often been used to describe the taking of Christians out of this world, while the unsaved are “left behind” to go through a period of tribulation. Now there is much more said on the subject of eschatology in this chapter, but what I would like to point out here is the nature of this “taking away.”Notice that this is compared to the days of Noah. Who exactly does it say was “swept away” in the days of Noah? Those who were not safely in the ark because they didn’t believe. Now since the “rapture” is supposed to correspond to this, who is it that will be taken away in the rapture? The unsaved. The elect (as the passage calls them a bit higher up, will be gathered together, but it is the unsaved who will be “raptured.”I think this lends support to the eschatalogical belief that Christ will return, gather his elect, and renew heaven and earth, ushering in eternity (I realize this is a very simplistic and incomplete overview, but you get the idea).
Comments
Matt,<br><br>I understand what you are trying to say, but disagree somewhat. I agree that the passage you site declares that one will be taken IN JUDGEMENT and the other left. And I also agree that since this is the case, pre-trib pre-mills are wrong to marshall this text as a proof text for an any-moment rapture.<br><br>However, do we have to see “taken” as “raptured”? This is a pre-trib assumption that is read into the text. <br><br>From Matt. 24:31 we know the elect will be gathered from the four winds. This seems similar to the rapture as described in 1 Thess. 4. It also might be the “gathering” spoken of in 2 Thess. 2:1. Since this is said to occur with a trumpet, it might be the same event described in 1 Cor. 15 where the “last trumpet” heralds the resurrection of the dead and a “changing” of the living.<br><br>With this backdrop and with the absence of any other explicit rapture-of-lost- passages, I do not think seeing a rapture of the lost with the saved remaining on the ground is warranted from this text theologically.<br><br>Jesus might be referring to the destruction of Jerusalem which happened in AD 70 as well as referring to the end time events described earlier and later. But regardless, this teaching that one will be taken and the other left seems to be more of a description of the judgment/end time event rather than a prescription. Technically, the saved are gathered thru the rapture and the lost are consumed in judgment. This happens at Christ’s glorious return (which gives rest to the saved and eternal judgment to the lost--2 Thess. 1). But practically, mankind will be divided, one will be taken in judgment and another will be left (to inherit the earth/millennial kingdom/eternal kingdom).<br><br>The main point of that passage seems to be: “Watch and be ready, because you do not know when Christ will return”. <br><br>Am I making any sense? I too feel the need to study eschatology more thoroughly now that I have discarded some unhelpful dispensational interpretive guidelines.<br><br>
Posted by Bob Hayton on 03/10 at 11:03 PM
Bob,<br><br>I think I basically agree with what you said. I do not, in fact, see two comings of Christ as dispensationalists tend to (rapture and second coming). My use of the term “rapture” was rather tongue in cheek.<br><br>The wicked will be removed, and the elect will be gathered together. Again, I’m not really certain how this all fits together. It’s a work in progress.<br><br>
Posted by fitzage on 03/11 at 08:03 AM
Matt.Hmm. Once again, you have taken “traditional” thought and turned it on it’s head. Why, oh, why? None-the-less, I would be interested in the 83page explanation (like with ‘wine’ & ‘strong-drink’) that you eventually come up with.<br><br>
Posted by Joshua L Smith on 03/20 at 10:03 AM
Ashley,<br><br>Personally, I hadn’t thought about this particular passage in light of what happened in AD 70, until Bob brought it up.<br><br>You make an interesting point. Perhaps my view is still being colored by the beliefs I was raised to hold.<br><br>Still working through everything though Josh, don’t hold your breath.<br><br>
Posted by fitzage on 03/20 at 01:03 PM
“Jesus might be referring to the destruction of Jerusalem which happened in AD 70."<br><br>How is this just a might? How could this possibly be describing some end-time scenario?<br><br>
Posted by on 03/20 at 01:03 PM
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