Correct. John 3:16 does not deal with election or atonement. A typical Arminian straw man.<br><br>
Posted by Chris on 04/26 at 06:04 AM
Meditations on John 3
Most of you probably know by now that I am a firm believer that the Doctrines of Grace as expressed by the five points of what is commonly called Calvinism are thoroughly biblical, and that any interpretation of the Gospel that denies these truths does serious damage to the Gospel. I recently started reading through John, and today I got to John 3.
John 3:16 is often used by Arminians to say that Limited Atonement (better known as Particular Redemption) cannot be accurate, because it says God loved “the world” and “whosoever believes.” I’ll point out in passing that Calvinists do not deny that anyone who believes in Christ will be saved; we just believe that no one can come to Christ unless God draws him. These two doctrines do not contradict each other. (If it sounds like I’m getting off of the Particular Redemption point and onto some of the others, I probably am as they are all inextricably linked to each other).But to get back to John 3, what I want to point out today is that the verses immediately following John 3:16 are clearly in support of the doctrines of Calvinism. Look at the end of verse 17: “but in order that the world might be saved through him.” What we are looking at here is a use of the word “world” that obviously does not mean that it will be effective for everyone in the world. To interpret this the way Arminians say that “world” should always be interpreted is to claim that everyone in the world will be saved, and that none will be condemned. This clearly violates other Scriptures, and the average Arminian or Pelagian would not be willing to go this far. But it is their own reasoning that takes us to this conclusion.But let us move on a bit further (while remaining in the same paragraph that was begun by John 3:16, verses 18-21:
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God.
What we see here is that everyone who is wicked does not come to the light because he hates the light (v. 20) and that these people were condemned before Christ even came (v. 17-18). What we also see is that the ones who are not condemned are those who come to the light and believe in the name of Jesus. Furthermore we see that those who come to the light are those whose deeds have been “carried out in God.” To paraphrase verse 21, the ones that do what is true are the ones who come, but they don’t come or do good of themselves, but they come and do good because of God. You’ll notice that this work of God actually precedes the act of coming.I guess I got off the original topic of Particular Redemption, but that is because, as I mentioned before, these five doctrines are inextricably linked (some would go so far as to say they are just five ways of saying the same thing). My summary, therefore, is this: John 3:16 does not deal a blow to the Doctrines of Grace as many claim, but when taken with the rest of the context in which it appears lends significant support to these doctrines.
All Scripture passages taken from the ESV unless otherwise noted.
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I am not being critical, but as one who has actually studied this out on my own, what do you say to this? I’m not saying you can give me an answer that absolutely will convince me from Scripture that you are right, because there probably isn’t one, but here goes.
If God chooses who can get saved, why wouldn’t He choose to save the world? Why choose only a few people if He chould choose them all? Do you believe that everyone whom God draws will eventually be saved? Where is our responsibility to witness?
I know you’ve probably heard everything here before, and you are just itching to convince me, so here’s your chance.
Posted by on 09/18 at 10:48 AM
God does what He wills and doesn’t ask our permission or consult our reasoning. That’s why He provided His Word, which gives us everything He wants us to know. Bottom line (and answer to your last question): because He says so.
There is much more reading you must do than Matthew’s short post about a single verse. I recommend Monergism as a great starting point, or this post.
Posted by on 09/18 at 11:08 AM
Yeah, what he said.
God doesn’t choose to give us the why for everything, so most thoughts along those routes are just guesses. I think one thing is obvious, though, and that is that God desires to display all aspects of his glory, and that includes his wrath as well as his mercy.
Also, yes, I believe that everyone whom God draws will eventually be saved. Our responsibility to witness lies in the fact that God demands it of us, and that he doesn’t tell us who are the elect and who aren’t. We spread our delight in his glory, not because we are capable of convincing people to accept Christ, but because we are commanded to and because we want to share our greatest joy with others.
Second guessing what the Bible clearly says just because we don’t understand with our limited reasoning how it can be is not the way to properly understand the Bible.
Posted by fitzage on 09/18 at 11:19 AM
Do you really think I would be silly enough to draw you guys’ attention by posting if all I had read was Matt’s post? I have been reading things; in fact, everyone at school asked me why I was reading systematic theology books, among other things.
Also, if everyone God draws is going to get saved, what of the stories (and I know you’ve heard them too) of people who were called by God to get saved and died resisting that call?
And Nathan, do you remember about three years ago when we were staying at your house and we were talking about baptism and immersion and all that? You said that one of the things you hated was when people like me tried to end a theological argument by saying that God doesn’t answer to us and “his ways are higher than our ways,” etc. It almost seems to me that that is what YOU just said. Maybe not, and you can clarify. If so, please do.
Posted by on 09/18 at 02:34 PM
By the way, do you guy have email addresses? That would be a better way to chat than posting on your blog, “fitzage.” 
Posted by on 09/18 at 02:36 PM
Truth is truth is truth. Just because something isn’t in the Bible doesn’t mean it isn’t true.
Posted by on 09/18 at 02:57 PM
No, but when something contradicts what’s in the Bible then it isn’t true.
Posted by fitzage on 09/18 at 02:58 PM
So this IS that Katy. Join Facebook. We’re all on there. No postee email addressee on here. Ee.
There’s a huge difference between making one’s position “well, we can’t understand it - God’s ways are higher than ours” and answering a specific “why?” question with “because He says so.” I don’t think there’s any argument that God does indeed command us to promote His glory by telling others of Him.
Posted by on 09/18 at 03:02 PM
Um, our email addresses are freely scrape-able on this site. Abandon ship!
Shouldn’t our names link to our websites? Please make it so! Please!
Posted by on 09/18 at 03:06 PM
No danger. JavaScript is protecting our addresses. It just LOOKS like HTML mailto’s.
Terror alert lowered to pink.
Posted by on 09/18 at 03:13 PM
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